Left off the US San Antonio in Haifa port. And the Chicom LPD that was on pirate patrol and some sources have said deploying into the red sea heading north for the med. Will have to see if they actually go through the suez.
I don't think China and Russia is going to jump in but they are going to get an intelligence boom recording our ECM and testing their sensors realworld value. Russia I imagine will probably take the opportunity to run some targeting for their Syrian ASM missiles and if we are dumb enough to limit ourselves to just cruise missiles giving heads up to the syrian defense net. No real risk to themselves but a potential realworld test of their gear at worse and at best make a hit or two and get a sales boom.
Remember the INS Hanit. On July 14, 2006, during the 2006 Lebanon War, it suffered damage after being attacked by an anti-ship missile launched by Hezbollah.
Given that NATO escorts primarily exist to defend carriers, and Russian escorts primarily exist to kill escorts, to what extent do 5 US destroyers outmatch a Missile Cruiser? Do they at all?
The US Burke class "Destroyers" have almost the same firepower of a Ticonderoga. The lost 1 illuminator for Surface to Air weapons, 32 VL tubes and a gun. They have a new generation AEGIS system, much better processing and improved C&C center. Not to mention no ALUMINUM, lessons learned.
In any other NATO Navy this would be a flag ship, not a destroyer.
While the Slava class cruisers have a 3K Ton larger displacement, the Burkes actually have more missile tubes for a larger throw weight. Slava's have 16 Surface to Surface missiles. Depending on the Burke Flight they may have 8 Harpoon + undisclosed number of Tomahawks. For some reason the newest ships have no Harpoon mounts.
Harlan The Slava carries 16 P500s, each with a 1000kg warhead. The Burkes (sometimes) carry 8 harpoons, with a 200kg warhead
The P500 has a range of 500km The Harpoon 124km
The Harpoon moves at 240 m/s The P500 move at 850 m/s
The Burke is all about intercepting missiles and aircraft aimed at a carrier The Slava is all about killing Burkes.
Don Yeah, the UK sent a sub through the Canal a few years back, the crew were all on top with heavy machine guns and the Egyptian army had a company on each side of the bank keeping pace. A sub it a small target that could in extremis dive. A carrier is a ****ing huge target, I suppose it could have a full wing flying top cover though.
Many Burkes have lost their Harpoons in Flight IIA units. Along with the towed sonar array, to enable a lower cross section for stealth. The CV can launch strikes from 1000 miles away, it's complicated and not easy with overflight of other nations but it can be done. Transit the Suez in a war? Not likely.
I just looked up the Moskva and the Panteleyev. They are a Slava-class missile cruiser and an Udaloy-class destroyer. I wonder what would happen if they were told to engage any cruise missiles we launched. The Slava-class has the sea-based version of the S-300 missile system built into it and both ships combined have over 128 surface-to-air missiles with modern fire control systems.
Russian ships are truly a force to be reckoned with.
Last we heard, the Nimitz was in the southern Red Sea, or around 1,000 miles from the eastern Med. One problem with being in the northern end of that Sea, and closer to the destroyers, is its proximity to the Sinai, with a growing hotbed of jihadists plus a lot of Libya's "missing missiles" reportedly ended up there.
In any case I imagine that CVN-68's Captain Jeff Ruth and his fellow SG commanders would rather be in some open ocean at this time, and not in a rather confined sea with choke-points at each end. But then I'm a ground guy, so I'm just guessing.
All these ships are toast in a real gut bustin' Navy war. During one old war an Admiral stated that the British Med Fleet was like a cut rose, beautiful to look at, yet fated to wither and die. Conventional weapons may take longer, if nukes are used the fleets of all sides will be Combat ineffective inside thirty minutes. The Med while large is still just a lake when Blue water Capitol ships are concerned, The Black Sea Fleet? It's base is in a fish bowl and it's exits and entrance is the Straits of Dardanelles, mined and cover with Air assets is a dead end street. Same for Gibraltar. Get enough Capitol ships in one small area and the desire to eliminate with a Nuke becomes overwhelming, Mission kill.
McCain has actually always thought we should intervene and he was consistent on this topic. He thinks that bombing the regime will allow the US to be allies with the general populace. However, when the general populace of Syria has an even stronger ally in Al-Qaeda that changes quite a few things.
I wonder if there are any Russian subs in the area as well.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine every nation in the arena has it's subs at sea or under cover.
DeleteOR Both.
Russian subs betcha so.
ReplyDeleteLeft off the US San Antonio in Haifa port. And the Chicom LPD that was on pirate patrol and some sources have said deploying into the red sea heading north for the med. Will have to see if they actually go through the suez.
I don't think China and Russia is going to jump in but they are going to get an intelligence boom recording our ECM and testing their sensors realworld value. Russia I imagine will probably take the opportunity to run some targeting for their Syrian ASM missiles and if we are dumb enough to limit ourselves to just cruise missiles giving heads up to the syrian defense net. No real risk to themselves but a potential realworld test of their gear at worse and at best make a hit or two and get a sales boom.
Remember the INS Hanit. On July 14, 2006, during the 2006 Lebanon War, it suffered damage after being attacked by an anti-ship missile launched by Hezbollah.
ReplyDeleteGiven that NATO escorts primarily exist to defend carriers, and Russian escorts primarily exist to kill escorts, to what extent do 5 US destroyers outmatch a Missile Cruiser?
ReplyDeleteDo they at all?
not at all. which is why the USN had to move a carrier into the area to protect the destroyers!!!!
DeleteThe US Burke class "Destroyers" have almost the same firepower of a Ticonderoga. The lost 1 illuminator for Surface to Air weapons, 32 VL tubes and a gun. They have a new generation AEGIS system, much better processing and improved C&C center. Not to mention no ALUMINUM, lessons learned.
DeleteIn any other NATO Navy this would be a flag ship, not a destroyer.
While the Slava class cruisers have a 3K Ton larger displacement, the Burkes actually have more missile tubes for a larger throw weight. Slava's have 16 Surface to Surface missiles. Depending on the Burke Flight they may have 8 Harpoon + undisclosed number of Tomahawks. For some reason the newest ships have no Harpoon mounts.
Harlan
DeleteThe Slava carries 16 P500s, each with a 1000kg warhead.
The Burkes (sometimes) carry 8 harpoons, with a 200kg warhead
The P500 has a range of 500km
The Harpoon 124km
The Harpoon moves at 240 m/s
The P500 move at 850 m/s
The Burke is all about intercepting missiles and aircraft aimed at a carrier
The Slava is all about killing Burkes.
Don
Yeah, the UK sent a sub through the Canal a few years back, the crew were all on top with heavy machine guns and the Egyptian army had a company on each side of the bank keeping pace.
A sub it a small target that could in extremis dive.
A carrier is a ****ing huge target, I suppose it could have a full wing flying top cover though.
Many Burkes have lost their Harpoons in Flight IIA units.
DeleteAlong with the towed sonar array, to enable a lower cross section for stealth.
The CV can launch strikes from 1000 miles away, it's complicated and not easy with overflight of other nations but it can be done.
Transit the Suez in a war? Not likely.
I just looked up the Moskva and the Panteleyev. They are a Slava-class missile cruiser and an Udaloy-class destroyer. I wonder what would happen if they were told to engage any cruise missiles we launched. The Slava-class has the sea-based version of the S-300 missile system built into it and both ships combined have over 128 surface-to-air missiles with modern fire control systems.
ReplyDeleteRussian ships are truly a force to be reckoned with.
Last we heard, the Nimitz was in the southern Red Sea, or around 1,000 miles from the eastern Med. One problem with being in the northern end of that Sea, and closer to the destroyers, is its proximity to the Sinai, with a growing hotbed of jihadists plus a lot of Libya's "missing missiles" reportedly ended up there.
ReplyDeleteIn any case I imagine that CVN-68's Captain Jeff Ruth and his fellow SG commanders would rather be in some open ocean at this time, and not in a rather confined sea with choke-points at each end. But then I'm a ground guy, so I'm just guessing.
All these ships are toast in a real gut bustin' Navy war.
DeleteDuring one old war an Admiral stated that the British Med Fleet was like a cut rose, beautiful to look at, yet fated to wither and die.
Conventional weapons may take longer, if nukes are used the fleets of all sides will be Combat ineffective inside thirty minutes.
The Med while large is still just a lake when Blue water Capitol ships are concerned, The Black Sea Fleet? It's base is in a fish bowl and it's exits and entrance is the Straits of Dardanelles, mined and cover with Air assets is a dead end street. Same for Gibraltar.
Get enough Capitol ships in one small area and the desire to eliminate with a Nuke becomes overwhelming, Mission kill.
If anyone else wants another laugh about the Syria crisis, check out John McCain trying to handle his voters when discussing his support for Obama:
ReplyDeletehttp://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/05/mccain-gets-an-earful-from-voters-on-syria/
I saw that, Clown got told by his voters they did not elect him to start a war.
DeleteWhat I wonder does McCain get out of bombing Syria?
McCain has actually always thought we should intervene and he was consistent on this topic. He thinks that bombing the regime will allow the US to be allies with the general populace. However, when the general populace of Syria has an even stronger ally in Al-Qaeda that changes quite a few things.
DeleteThanks for posting this.. I've been looking for a good OOB
ReplyDeleteOOB? What's that acronym for?
Delete